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Thoughts on the security of our border

Posted: Tuesday, January 1, 2019 12:00 am

I got to thinking about our border and the security thereof. That lead me to look up the definition of “wall.” One definition caught my attention. It was “an impediment to free movement.” 

In thinking about this definition, it occurred to me that a wall, using this definition, would include the rules, laws and physical elements that support the desire of the citizens to live in a secure, safe country. 

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26 comments:

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  • t28fog posted at 9:55 pm on Fri, Jan 11, 2019.

    t28fog Posts: 395

    Gene, I asked a question, not fear mongering, not repeating false info, and not presenting any addition facts, and not discounting your response. I simply asked what is your acceptable number of illegal border crossings per year.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 9:32 pm on Fri, Jan 11, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    i am simply pointing out that you are repeating false information. you repeat the fear mongering without factual information. you are not a credible poster on this topic. when you have some facts to post other than your opinion, then please do so. i will respond to that only from now own.

    yep, for sure anything you disagree with is bs. gene

     
  • t28fog posted at 6:34 pm on Fri, Jan 11, 2019.

    t28fog Posts: 395

    I think the crooks and murders who cross illegally are just as illegal as the families. Numbers may be down but what is your acceptable number of illegal border crossings per year? Sovereign nations control their borders. All this BS about the lack of need for a wall in some places is just political posturing for the left.

    There are been several attempts to award citizenship in trade for some little border security increase in the past that fixed nothing. Let's not do it again. Let's do it all one time and control our borders, fine employers who hire illegals, streamline the asylum process.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 2:14 pm on Fri, Jan 11, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    fog, the brief time i was up this morning (still have a fever of over 100 with this cedar. going on for 3 weeks now), i stumbled across a fact check site that was looking at the percentage of illegals caught vs not. they were fact checking some democrats statement that 90% of those coming across the southern border were caught. they reviewed several sites and the percentage caught ranged from 85% (cato institute of all places), to 40% (simply cannot remember this source, but it seems it was some outfit in new jersey). most of them clustered around 70%+. so the multiplier is less than 1, probably less than 0.30.

    i think this goes to further prove that all this hoorah is hysterical overreaction based on lies spread by our leader and his henchmen. doesnt mean we don't need to fix things, just means beware when you listen to trump, or fox for that matter.

    a fox related site had big headlines about 32k families caught, but the body of the article pointed out that attempted crossings were at or near an all time low, and the bp estimated that only about a 1000 families slipped in. the key word here is families. not murderers, rapists, drug mules, terrorists, vermin, or american hating ebola carriers.

    just curious, but how do you feel about a man who will ruthlessly lie to stir fear and put people at each others throats, who will threaten to withdraw fema funds from hurricane repair, and says people who make 30k a year will adjust to not having a paycheck? now many attempt to excuse his vileness because of his alleged turn around of the economy, which is another lie. i went to a business site where they showed that inflation had more than eaten up raises when you used the median income rather than the average. when you have a skewed distribution, using the average as a base point is quite misleading and recommended against by statisticians. gene

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 5:34 am on Fri, Jan 11, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    you last post did not pop up till i posted again. in response to your last post: or course you don't have any statistics to back your supposition.

    as i said, i prefer to deal with the facts we have. gene

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 5:31 am on Fri, Jan 11, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    and i will add this: part of my career was spent as an expert witness. can you imagine had i been on the stand and said, "since we don't know all the facts, i will simply ignore what we do know, and engage in supposition". how long do you think i would have been a credible witness? how long do you think, had a complaint been filed, for the APA to swoop down and suspend my license?

    i prefer to deal with the facts as we know them. gene

     
  • t28fog posted at 7:54 pm on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    t28fog Posts: 395

    I don't have any firm statistics on the number missed but if the number turned away at the gate is over 90% where did all these illegals come from.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 7:24 pm on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    but fog, i do have to challenge one statement: how do you know that the ones we don't catch is a big multitude compared to the ones we do? how big a multitude? 10x, 20x, maybe 100x. what is your source of information? you cant base policy on supposition. gene

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 12:38 pm on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    agreed. gene

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 11:59 am on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    i mean tfog. don't want any confusion. gene

     
  • t28fog posted at 11:14 am on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    t28fog Posts: 395

    We count the illegals we catch, we can't count those we do not catch and that number is most likely a big multiple of those caught. Simply, we don't control our borders. I watched people using big inner tubes floating across in the shadow of the Laredo old Bridge. They would then wait in the shade of the Border Patrol building to be picked up. I literally watched this for two days from the balcony of the La Posada hotel. There are walks in some places and I'm glad you have seen them. I have seen a steady glow of illegals coming towards Brackettville daily. They were following the blinking tower lights at night.

    We keep putting a bandaid on the whole immigration problem. Let's just demand they fix it.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 10:58 am on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    and t, i certainly appreciate your thoughtful comments on this issue, and except for the fear mongering aspect, agree with every thing you said in you post. not so sure what you mean about defending our border though. the last time i was down then, there were double fences and border patrol all over the place.

    i have beaten this dead horse enough, and am moving on to other issues.

    thanks again for an intelligent response. gene

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 10:31 am on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    agree with you fog, people need to sit down. but the numbers of people currently coming across pales when you compare it to the size of our population. there is no emergency here except a manufactured one.

    and i disagree with you about it not being hysterical trump supporters, of course it is.

    and wasnt it lamar smith who long ago blocked the penalizing of businesses that hire illegals? gene

     
  • t28fog posted at 9:22 am on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    t28fog Posts: 395

    The numbers may be down but the numbers are ridiculous for a sovereign country.

     
  • t28fog posted at 9:19 am on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    t28fog Posts: 395

    I think it is less about Hysterical Trump supporters rather finally doing something. And doing something hopefully will be a comprehensive package streamlining the asylum process, defending the border, penalizing the hiring of illegals and handling the DACA folks and some path for illegals already here. But you can't do just part of it. I support using the emergency powers which will force a sit down on the other related issues.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 6:32 am on Thu, Jan 10, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    nice post and very accurate. in this case, i think the wall is something that is blocking the rational thinking part of trumps brain (assuming he has any left) from communicating with his limbic system.

    but since crossings are at an all time low, i see no particular urgency. what we have been doing seems to work pretty well.

    a careful study of the facts can lead to solutions, but magnifying the problem and triggering hysteria is his followers is designed to worsen the problem, not solve it. gene

     
  • t28fog posted at 11:46 pm on Wed, Jan 9, 2019.

    t28fog Posts: 395

    The wall is many things. It is a symbol, a deterrent, an obstacle to slow down a crossing attempt. In some aces it is the best solution. It is needed in some places. To say otherwise is just ridiculous. It will be interesting to see who blinks first. I'm betting he will declare a national emergency in McAllen tomorrow and the firestorm will begin.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 2:20 pm on Wed, Jan 9, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    and what does that have to do with the topic?

    the term catch and release was originated in the 80s and had to do with apprehending people crossing illegally and releasing them back into mexico. bush the younger tightened up immigration laws and expelled slightly over 2 million people, mostly those who had committed a crime other than the misdemeanor crime of crossing the border illegally. obama continued to tighten the laws and deported 3.1 million people who had committed crimes. most of the crimes were quite minor, such as traffic violations. but since they were crimes, boom, out they went. he also began to count people who were caught for the second time crossing illegally as committing a crime, and also deported them. to date his administration holds the record for deportations.

    due to the republican effort to choke the govt. to death, a huge backlog of people awaiting processing began to develop due to the shortage of immigration judges. this situation has worsened under trump as he has not added judges. he seems to be in some kind of contest with obama to deport the most criminals, as he has now declared that crossing the border illegally is a crime to be included among the handful of murderers etc. but due to existing laws, people seeking sanctuary have a right to a hearing. obama did not pass this law, as it was in place long before he took office. there was a time when the republican party did truly have a heart and a rational mind, but most of those people have now defected and are independents.

    there is more or course, but you can easily look this information up yourself if you choose.

    as to the people not qualifying, how do you know? they havent even had their hearings yet. you guys like to talk about trump derangement syndrome, but the issue seems to be obama derangement syndrome. what is the matter with you guys that you cant give a person his due?

    as to all the criminals, reference the article on the inside front page of a very recent kdt paper. there was also a similar article about 2 or 3 months ago. the data clearly points out that illegals commit less crime than native born americans. and this makes perfect sense. the people crossing our border are not stupid, and once they get in, they have the sense to go under the radar and that means not committing crimes. native born have no such restraints.

    it would be good to sit down and thoroughly review our laws, but the current administration has chosen fear mongering. and boy has it worked. and all the lies does not help much either. but hey, now its a humanitarian crisis, and trump has so much empathy for the down trodden that he just wants to help them.

    t, i have often thought that you have been using a version of socratic questioning, but perhaps not. over the last few years you will pose a question, i will answer it as best i can, and then ask you a question. but instead of answering the question, which opens up honest dialogue, you do one of two things: you ask another question or you try to put words in a persons mouth in an effort to have them defend something they never said. techniques such as this are commonly used to deflect away from real issues, do not further debate, nor do they represent efforts to reach some kind of consensus so an action plan can be developed. and of course they are used by partisans on both the left and right who frankly have no interest in honest dialogue.

    and here is my question for you: did obama do a single good thing in his entire 8 years? gene

     
  • trose posted at 9:23 am on Wed, Jan 9, 2019.

    trose Posts: 286

    Most of the people seeking asylum at our southern border do not qualify.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 2:40 pm on Tue, Jan 8, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    okay, here goes another wasted post. the purpose of electronic surveillance is to alert that the border is being approached, not breeched. the cameras point towards mexico.

    the majority of the people trying to enter are coming to ports of entry and seeking asylum legally and they are not vanishing into this country never to to appear again. .those statements are contradicted by the dhs, and a trump appointee is running that.
    but like i say, don't let any facts get in the way of what you believe. gene

     
  • trose posted at 10:25 am on Tue, Jan 8, 2019.

    trose Posts: 286

    Alerting the Border Patrol of a breach does not fix the problem. The fact is they are here and in many cases we can not deport them. We give them a court date to appear in front of a judge which they never show up. So as a practical matter once they get in we might as well call they US citizens.

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 12:26 pm on Mon, Jan 7, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    my response was to your question about all the people flowing over.

    but as to electronic fences, they are not designed to stop people, rather to cover vast swatches of territory and alert the border patrol to potential breeches. far cheaper and probably more effective than a wall as you are still going to have drones, cameras relaying nfo, etc.

    all i am saying that trump is a liar as are many of his henchmen. creating tremendous dissonance in people who backed him, and the way most of them seem to be dealing with it is doubling down and dismissing facts.

    not talking about you, just many of his supporters. gene

     
  • trose posted at 10:57 am on Mon, Jan 7, 2019.

    trose Posts: 286

    Gene, I am not relying on any outside source. All I am asking is how does a camera stop a illegal from crossing the border?

     
  • Mary Lou Shelton posted at 7:41 am on Mon, Jan 7, 2019.

    Mary Lou Shelton Posts: 1255

    sent this response in yesterday, must have hit the wrong button.

    if you are relying on information coming from the tump administration, then you relying on lies. t, why don't you got to some fact check sites. heck, even fox is now stating that the administration is lying.

    making it easy:use bing as your search engine. they have a section called fact check. it contains multiple fact check sites. gene

     
  • trose posted at 11:01 pm on Sat, Jan 5, 2019.

    trose Posts: 286

    I can not see where a drone, camera or some other hi tech idea is going to stop a person crossing the border.

     
  • trose posted at 1:48 pm on Sat, Jan 5, 2019.

    trose Posts: 286

    If the numbers of drugs and criminals crossing into our country are even close to being true it is totally irresponsible of our government not to be doing something to fix the situation.

     

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